Monday, July 13"And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not."

613 commandments or 10?

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  • #5494
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    Devarim
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    • Affiliation: The Son
    • Country: USA

      Some say we are still to follow the 613, I don’t believe this is true. Some say law was done away with, I don’t think that’s true either. I believe when it is said law was done away with that it was the law of Moses and the 10 still stand as it is the law of God and unchanging.

      When Christ fulfilled the law, He fulfilled the 10 proving we could also do it while living in a body of flesh. When Christ was asked about the commandments he said this.

      “So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ””
      ‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:18-19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

      Why would he have gone to the 10 instead of the 613? Also the 613 contain sacrificial laws where Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. How could the 613 still be in place when the ultimate sacrifice was already offered by God himself?

      #5503
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      wellspring
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      • Affiliation: SDA
      • Country: United States

        I am a seventh-day Adventist. I take it you believe that the Law of Moses is obsolete, presumably from a Biblical standpoint. Most Adventists also believe the Law of Moses was nailed to the Cross, i.e., done away with. Hebrew Israelite Dr. Sidney Davis has a presentation entitled, “The Law in Colossians” that utterly refutes that teaching. I agree with him. I have a similar teaching series that you may find interesting. Titles include, “The Shadow of Thomas Aquinas,” No Condemnation,” “The Crucifixion of the Law,” and “Judge Yahweh.” To be direct, the teaching that there is a dichotomy between the Law of God and the Law of Moses is nonsensical and anti-Biblical. I deal with that in my PowerPoint “Didn’t You Get the Memo ?”

        I have enjoyed your research on the truth about the ethnicity of Bible characters. I plan to use it to buttress my own presentations that frankly display Black patriarchs and matriarchs in the Bible. “Twelve Mistakes that Changed the World” was preached at my local SDA Church at the turn of the Gregorian year.

        I will be glad to forward any or all these to you at your request. Some are PowerPoints, others are DVD’s.

        Hope to hear from you soon.

        In His service,
        Bill Daniels

        #5512
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        Devarim
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        • Affiliation: The Son
        • Country: USA

          “Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “ You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—”
          ‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

          “He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.”
          ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

          “And He answered and said to them, “What did Moses command you?” They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her. ” And Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.””
          ‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:3-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

          “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust.”
          ‭‭John‬ ‭5:45‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

          “Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven.”
          ‭‭John‬ ‭6:32‬ ‭NKJV

          “Jesus answered and said to them, “I did one work, and you all marvel. Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.””
          ‭‭John‬ ‭7:21-24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

          “they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.”
          ‭‭John‬ ‭8:4-8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

          #5513
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          Devarim
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          • Affiliation: The Son
          • Country: USA

            Good luck keeping all 613. We were also given this.

            “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.”
            ‭‭James‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

            #5573
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            Shaq
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              Trying to keep all 613 I personally think is one’s own setup for failure. Maybe God did away with the old law because he knew it to be impossible for modern men to keep. So I believe we are to follow the 10, which Jesus fulfilled in the flesh through LOVE. If we love our brothers and sisters as ourselves the 10 should be easy to keep.

              • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Shaq.
              #5623
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              Devarim
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              • Affiliation: The Son
              • Country: USA

                To keep 613 would be to deny the sacrifice of Christ. No sacrifice is greater than the one God gave. Here’s a perfect example of Christ overruling one of the mosaic laws

                ““Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.”
                ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:31-32‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

                #5633
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                michael
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                • Affiliation: Christian
                • Country: Canada

                  There’s a reason the 10 Commandments are called “Commandments” and thus are given greater significance than the Levitical law.

                  The Commandments were given to Moses on top of Mt. Sinai, and brought down on two tablets. The law was given later, and thus they are two separate texts.

                  So, when someone says they’re keeping the law and then refer to the 10 Commandments, they display an ignorance of scripture. Some don’t even know the difference between the law and the commandments.

                  Those I’ve come across who say we are to keep the law fall into two camps:
                  1)They don’t know the difference between the Commands and the Law
                  2)They pick a few laws which they keep, such as abstaining from unclean foods, and thus think they are keeping the law.

                  Keeping 2-3 laws of 613 is not keeping the law, it is keeping 2-3 of 613 laws. So, the first thing I ask someone who says they keep the law is for them to recite the 613 laws, since it’s impossible to keep a law you don’t even know.

                  Paul spoke repeatedly on this, going so far as to tell lawkeepers to “go the whole way and immasculate themselves,” referring to those trying to put men under circumcision again.

                  Christ did not abolish the law, he fulfilled it.
                  Matthew 5:17
                  “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”

                  The law still stands, it is not abolished, but Christ fulfilled it for those who are in Him.

                  The Commands still stand, and we are to obey them unto showing our sonship and our love for God, not unto salvation.

                  John 14:21
                  “Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

                  Any who says we don’t have to keep the commands should consider this passage

                  Matthew 24:20
                  “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day”

                  Even running for your life, you are to keep the Sabbath.
                  But again I stress, not unto salvation, but unto showing your love and sonship, as John 14:21 says nothing about salvation.

                  #5803
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                  Itohan
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                    Hello. Your argument on not keeping the law because it is done away with is good, but I would like to draw your attention to the following…
                    Following the law shows our love for the Most High God. We are not perfect, and he knows that, but when we follow his rules, we show that we have faith in Christ and we are trying to walk in God’s way and worshiping him according to the way he wants us to worship him. Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of the law, however even he pointed people to the law when he walked the earth.
                    We cannot say we love God and we want to be in his house (his kingdom) and not follow his rules. We can’t even do that with our human counterparts. The 10 commandments are clear enough and most people would say that they try to follow them. 1John 3:4 says “whosoever committeth sin transgresseth ALSO the law: for sin is a transgression of the law.
                    In Matthew 23:1-3, Jesus himself proclaimed to the people and said, “…The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” This clearly says what the scribes and pharisees tell the people to do, they should do it BUT they should not behave like the scribes and the pharisees. Now, this would have been a good time for Jesus to say to the people don’t bother follow the law because I am the fulfillment of it.
                    I could go on, but I stop here, and I hope you get some more understanding.

                    God bless!

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