Monday, April 6"And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not."

Wisdom is the Holy Spirit

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  • #5483
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    Devarim
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      This may also be of help.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah

      #5484
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      Terence Jackson
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        I appreciate that encouragement. Like I said, I used to believe that Proverbs were parables. The problem I had is that people have been calling the Holy Spirit wisdom for a while now and it hasn’t made much sense to me. I prayed on it and in less than 24 hours and I was sent scriptures to look at and the wisdom (no pun intended) to put it all together. Precept after precept. Praises go to Him and blessings go to you.

        #5488
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        Devarim
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          All praise to the Father and May the glory be His. May we all be blessed through Him and be blessings to Him, Brother. I think the issue comes with the name thing. I realized that while reading through this again. Just as God and Lord are titles, The Holy Spirit is also a title. We are Given the name of Jesus which with seeking should eventually lead one to His true name but what of the name of God or The Holy Spirit? Especially when praying “hallowed be thy name” or being baptized in the name of. Part of me wants to be stuck with believing the names don’t matter but can proper fruit be attained with improper names? Today I had a thought that it didn’t really matter what “Jesus” name was as long as the fruit of following the commandments and repentance were present but can one get that far without seeking?

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Devarim.
          #5506
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          Black History In The Bible
          Keymaster
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            This doctrine is so far off. The Holy Spirit is not a woman. SMH. Great job to those defending the truth. I’m gonna move this to the debate forum.

            #5511
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            Devarim
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              Did you even read any of the posted scripture? Care to post scripture outside of where the she was turned into a he? Where it says Mary is with Child of the Holy Spirit, do you suppose Christ was begotten of two males? God and The Holy Spirit? What of revelation 12 where it is clearly a woman giving birth to the son? It’s not pointing to a future event as some say equating the woman to Mary as again the in the same chapter it talks of the war in heaven.

              #5514
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              Terence Jackson
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                That is an unfair question. The title of this post is “Wisdom is the Holy Spirit.” Not one scripture you listed says wisdom is the Holy Spirit. Not one scripture you listed stated that the Holy Spirit is a woman. Not one scripture says the woman in Revelations 12 is the Holy Spirit.

                It is unfair to ask someone for a scripture that disproves an assumption.

                However, you listed a quote in Ode to Solomon 19 and here is an important snippet:

                “And she labored and bore the Son but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose.”

                However, in Revelations 12:2 :
                And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

                According to your examples, how come Mary bore a child without the pain of childbirth but the Holy Spirit went through the pain of childbirth? Why would the Holy Spirit give birth to a child that had no purpose?

                #5516
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                Devarim
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                  Again, rev 12 isn’t talking about the birth through Mary which is why one is with pain and one without. Have you ever read the protevangelion? The true story of the birth of Christ through Mary has far more detail that was left out. The birth was indeed painless as it wasn’t normal. How would she had remained virgin if it were? Also it doesn’t say it was without purpose. Says the opposite.

                  “ And she labored and bore the Son but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose.”

                  Meaning the way Christ was born through Mary was done with purpose. I’d have to say that means the entire miracle. Can I also add that the Holy Spirit wasn’t gendered as a “he” until Rome got hold of the scriptures? Wasn’t a he or a she.

                  • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Devarim.
                  #5518
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                  Terence Jackson
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                    This is why you can’t use scriptures that don’t have its foundation in the Bible. You were the one that used Odes to Solomon as an example. It said pain free childbirth because the child had a purpose. Now you’re using protevangelion talking about a pain free birth. Rev 12 is saying that there was pain in giving birth. Pain in childbirth is a curse brought on through Eve’s sin. The Holy Spirit is not a descendent of Eve nor did the Holy Spirit ever sin. If giving birth to Christ is pain free then through the examples you provided, the woman didn’t give birth to Christ in Rev 12 because she felt the pain of childbirth. If she felt pain in childbirth, she’s not the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit doesn’t descend from Adam and Eve.

                    You are using texts that don’t have a foundation in the Bible and their message is conflicting with the Bible. Still, you have not pointed to a single scripture that shows the Holy Spirit being a woman. You have not pointed to one scripture pointing to the Holy Spirit being wisdom.

                    #5519
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                    Terence Jackson
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                      BTW…Where in the Bible does it say the Holy Spirit(Ghost) is a he in the New Testament?

                      #5520
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                      Devarim
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                        Not correct. I pointed out the difference exactly and showed you where you misunderstood. Reread. I’m actually glad you asked the question of where it shows the spirit being a he because with that we can show that it can’t be a he using “canon” scripture.

                        “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
                        ‭‭John‬ ‭14:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

                        “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
                        ‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

                        “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”
                        ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

                        “But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”
                        ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

                        Understand the conflict now? Can a son be born of two males?

                        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Devarim.
                        #5522
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                        Terence Jackson
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                          I don’t think it’s good to tell me to reread something and that proves the point. It’s better that you explain it because you already have the answer. I’ve read it and I am not understanding your logic.

                          Very good answer on the “he”. That is biblical evidence on the Holy Spirit being a man. Now point out in the Old Testament that shows the Holy Spirit is a woman. If it says that it’s a woman, then you’ve proven your point that it is a woman and it somehow changed in the New Testament. If the Holy Spirit’s gender isn’t mentioned in the Old Testament it is a fallacy to say there is no gender or there has been tampering with scripture when the New Testament doesn’t support that.

                          I get that you are trying to say that TMH and the Holy Spirit are the parents and Mary is just a surrogate. You don’t seem to have a scripture for that outside of him being called “the Comforter” as feminine and Jesus calling Mary “woman” and you don’t think that’s a realistic way of talking to one’s mother. Those are opinion based arguments on what you believe to be improper based on communication styles that were 2000 years ago and not of today. Stick to scripture and not your feelings.

                          Just so you understand. I’m saying the Father and the Holy Ghost are the same thing and Mary is his mother.

                          John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

                          1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

                          If the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are one. The Father and the Holy Ghost are the same being. Scripture says Mary is his mother. There is no way around it. Going outside of scripture won’t mean a thing unless you are saying scripture is wrong.

                          #5523
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                          Devarim
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                            That is a misconception created by Catholicism tho. One means in agreement. All agreeing with eachother. Just as the son could ONLY do the will of His father. If God always existed, And the Holy Spirit was the first thing he created as proverbs 8 states, and Christ was made God by God himself as Hebrews 1 states, how could they all be the same? Christ would have always been as God is. Can’t be as he is alpha and omega. Beginning and End where as God has no beginning or end. Again, in order to fully gain understanding, the false doctrine of Rome has to be completely let go of.

                            As far as the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament again I’m glad you ask. Upon search there aren’t many instances of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament at all. Very few. But wisdom and understanding? All over the place.

                            “There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers;”
                            ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭5:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

                            • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Devarim.
                            #5525
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                            Terence Jackson
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                              I say this with all sincerity. I believe that you are fighting to not be wrong because even you admitted that there is multiple mentions of the Holy Spirit being a male and zero mentions of it being female which automatically disqualifies wisdom from being the Holy Spirit. You’ve verified that for yourself. If wisdom was created first means absolutely nothing because she has been eliminated as a possibility of being the Holy Spirit according to your own findings. At this point you are trying to make scripture fit your beliefs rather than allowing your beliefs to fit scripture and that’s not a good thing.

                              #5526
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                              Devarim
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                                Except you miss where the spirit wasn’t a he until Rome made the spirit a he. All original texts had the Holy Spirit without gender. Again, can a son be born of two males?

                                • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Devarim.
                                #5529
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                                Terence Jackson
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                                  Again, you found the scripture that points out Mary as the mother. Can a son be born of two females?

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